Curse

MasterSasori · Mar 14, 2008, 07:04 AM // 07:04

A friend and I had an argument that spanned the entire 15 minutes of AB on why the base shrines are or are not important. Frankly, I'm suprised this subject hasn't been brought up recently.

So I wanted to see what the people of GW Guru thought. Are the base shrines of Ancestral Lands/Kaanai Canyon more important than two other shrines outside and should they need extra protecting? Also list down what do you think is the best strategy if you were on the defending side and if you were on the offensive side.

Keep this in mind:

1. Are the base defenders are dead or alive?
2. The shrines are very close to the spawn point.
3. What is number of enemies storming/already inside the base?
4. Relative importance of bridge to base shrines.
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EDIT:

Anyway this is the strategy I use when Im on the offensive side in base map. We need to hold at least 3 of the 5 exterior shrines; the North and South equip stations must both be capped. Wall Guardians are removed as fast as possible with AoE and storm base with 3 or above members. After capping the two center, we continue to cap on the exterior.

This works best when there is one group on our side mobbing the bridge (there usually is), and one other team capping/able to hold their own.

ivan.alicard · Mar 14, 2008, 07:43 AM // 07:43

base shrine meanign the one middle base you get? well all shrines are important jst cap cap cap. its not however worth protecting unless you get a few strays that comes in. otherwise just let the mob take it use portal and cap the rest while their busy in there :/ easier to just let them leave and recap, faster any no giving death points.

Turbobusa · Mar 14, 2008, 10:29 AM // 10:29

It's generally overwhelming really fast to get insiade the base. There is 5 shrines outside of the fort, go for those.

JONO51 · Mar 14, 2008, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Dont go into the fort, isnt worth it, chances are while rushing a few MM's the rest of the other team will be on their way to capping the outside shrines.

caeleth · Mar 14, 2008, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Usually we try to get one team to cap inside while the other two cap outside. the team inside will stay until the opposing mob comes inside to swarm them and/or they die.

Bobby2 · Mar 14, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

The shrines inside would be fair game if it weren't such a bloody affair to get through the gates. Either

- a mass mob swarm
or
- a team coordinated to mess up the wall defense NPCs

could even the playing field (eg the other side not having 2 auto-shrines for the whole game).

moriz · Mar 14, 2008, 08:12 PM // 20:12

whenever i see an attacking mob enter the fort, i grab the nearest repair kit and repair the gate after them. for those of you who don't know, this means that the mob inside cannot reopen the gate to get out, thus locking them in.

i once locked 8 of them inside the fort. talk about absolute hilarity on all chat. i think i even got reported for "bug abuse", or whatever it was they thought i did.

Riotgear · Mar 14, 2008, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Capturing the inside of the fort means that the other team caps the rez shrines, and then anyone that dies inside the fort gets respawned at the base point, leading to that team getting spawn camped for the rest of the game.

The only time you should be capping the interior is if you can do it quickly. This means having a team that can knock out the ledge guards quickly on the way in, clear the shrines, and leave. Ideally, the control pattern you want is the interior, one equipment station, and one rez shrine. This is primarily because as long as you have a rez shrine up, the other team will uselessly fight over it, and a single equipment station is not hard to hold.

Van Goghs Ear · Mar 14, 2008, 10:58 PM // 22:58

the biggest mistake most make is to go for those inside shrines too quickly, it should definately be the last priority, and no one should even be thinking of going in unless all the other shrines are capped IMO.

the most important thing is to make sure that bridge is yours.

The Meth · Mar 15, 2008, 12:20 AM // 00:20

If one good team can get in there to clear npcs and cap both points, then those 4 players are practically unstoppable in there and can hold it indefinitely. Nothing short of the other side double or triple teaming you can take back those shrines when you have all of those allied npcs with you, and you usually tie up a great amount of their strength trying to constantly.

Its just very important that ONLY 1 team goes inside, because otherwise the other side WILL take your backup res shrines, then it all goes to hell.

Riotgear · Mar 15, 2008, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Generally-speaking, the deep maps work as follows:

- It's usually safe to assume one team will always hold one rez shrine, as they are difficult to attack.

- The bridge point is low-priority. It's very visible and in a high-traffic area, making it constantly ganked.

- The equipment stations are high-priority because they're rarely checked and out of the way. Countercaptures on them tend to take a very long time.

- Attacking the interior will almost always divert forces to the interior. Holding it should never be the plan, especially when anyone that dies attempting to take it back will respawn right on top of you

- Defending teams should focus on the equipment stations, since the interior is rarely capped, giving them a 4+ shrine count with minimum maintenance.

- Attacking teams should focus on the equipment stations, using interior ganks to draw forces away from other points and then capturing weak or undefended points.

It's hard to really give advice for the attacking side, because if the other team has even a quarter of a brain, they have no excuse for losing. They have extremely fast routes to 4 points on the map, and they don't get bottlenecked bad if they lose the rez shrines.

mrmango · Mar 15, 2008, 01:08 AM // 01:08

A winning overall team that has a coordinated 4-man team should invade the base.

MasterSasori · Mar 15, 2008, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

It's hard to really give advice for the attacking side, because if the other team has even a quarter of a brain, they have no excuse for losing. They have extremely fast routes to 4 points on the map, and they don't get bottlenecked bad if they lose the rez shrines.

Normally when I do lose on the defending side, the attacking side has these qualities:

1. They are highly coordinated and control at least 3 of the 5 outer shrines
2. They remove all the base guardians on at least 1 or 2 sides
3. Strike the base is a mob-like fashion but quickly disperse once the job is through

The defending side on the other hand:

1. Stubbornly mob the bridge rez shrines
2. Go on a one-way trip to mobsville. If it is the same color they stick with it. If its the opposite color they die within seconds only to respawn and try again.
3. Some try to do everything solo...
4. Don't understand that contrary to the name, Alliance Battles are not battles but a race.

In a nutshell, I don't know whether its more of the coordination of the attacking side or the incompetence of the defensive, but I see that the base seems to be important.

swamp head · Mar 24, 2008, 11:09 PM // 23:09

heres what ive done a few time (i know its noob but i wanted to do some mindless rampage) you take 3 touchers and a monk with dark escape + return
we played as kurzicks in kanaai
at the start you always go to the equipment stations thats not at the front of the fort, you cap that shiren, pick up the barrel and break the door.
with a coordinated toucher team u can kill very eazy.
the 3 touchers wipe the inner base in a min or something, coz of the big survivability the team can stay alive for very long
almost evry enemy that ressed inside the fort (luxons in this case) wont go outside tru the portals but try to kill you inside the base, mostly this happends 1 at the time, untill there are arround 4, 5, or 6 people who keep respawning 1 at the time so mobbing isnt a big issue here
and they will run mindless into your team due to the high level of retardation of the average AB player and mostly go for the monk but due to dark escape + return couldnt do much damage to him. and for most luxons running into touchers is just like jumping off a cliff (sadly it still is).
that way we could hold out the 2 shirens + the 1 that we capped outside of the base arround 3-4ish mins while killing loads of luxons and the outside 8 people just did there job capping.
this resulted in a win 3/4 times for us.
we used teamspeak for coordination so when we got wiped in there fort we could reform and do the same thing again.

Molock · Mar 25, 2008, 01:44 AM // 01:44

This is how I guide my team, if we have all the exterior shrines under our control we can attempt to capture the interior shrines. However, its just not worth the effort if your team doesn't already have all the exterior shrines.

Usually what happens is 2 of the 3 teams tries to capture the interior shrines before the exterior ones and end up losing every base usually causing a loss.

Bobby2 · Mar 25, 2008, 02:24 AM // 02:24

I modded my build as to entice allied Eles to nuke the wall defense NPCs when I want em to - most can't resist when I offer to spike out the Mesmer or Necro beside the Ele...

Lexar · Mar 25, 2008, 11:48 AM // 11:48

In my experience the attackers on maps like that shouldn't try to go for an overwhelming win by capping all the shrines because that's nearly impossible if the defenders are even reasonably average. In fact it's usually the less experienced players that will want to have an easy win on a map where that just can't happen if you're an attacker.
So yeah 9/10 times going for the fort is a huge waste of effort, even if they manage somehow to cap, it wasn't worth the time and people wasted by capping it. You win more if you have realistic ambitions, in other words, if you focus on keeping the bridge and 1 or maybe the 2 shrines outside the bridge, all match long. And like it was stated in other posts, usually going for the fort means losing the res shrines on the bridge, and basically losing all chance of winning the match for the attackers. In many cases you could even stretch it and go as far as to say that if the attackers lose the match it's due in large part to the decision to go for the fort.
If for some reason the defenders pose absolutely no threat, only then it's a good idea to go for the fort and wrap it up.

Bobby2 · Mar 25, 2008, 08:35 PM // 20:35

I would say the fort has its uses besides just shrine control. It offers a shortcut from the bridge to either Equipment shrine, which I've used to great advantage a couple of times already. Strictly spoken you don't even need the shrines for this as long as the wall defense NPCs have been knocked off - you could always go Front Gate --> teleporter of choice.

Shortcuts ftw.

Um Yeah · Mar 25, 2008, 10:11 PM // 22:11

My guild's/friends strategy when offensive on this map:->cap clockwise->cap base->wipe out wall NPCs->hold as long as possible. Once they're capped, there's usually a steady stream or so of the other team and if the rest of our team doesn't suck, the outside shrines are all capped and held. We usually don't die for a good 5-10 mins unless the team has a mediocre/good dom mes or really good ranger or if I lag at a critical moment (as monk), and even then we'll last a few mins against 8+ people. If you can't handle that then base may still be worth it too many people come back to defend base. If they're not that stupid, then it's probably not worth the time for most people. Oh and as a luxon during that double faction weekend, in the times I monked, we were something like 20-2 on Ancestral's. Only 1 close win; rest were 100-200 point margins.

newbie_of_doom · Apr 14, 2008, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Just as important as the other ones.... if u r bd u r gonna die in the fort tho. So, think plz.

Enjoy moar AB. Bye